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Report 1397
Report #1397 Skillset: Paradigmatics Skill: Revelations/TemporaryInsanity Org: Illuminati Status: Completed Oct 2016 Furies' Decision: Solution 1. Problem: Temporary insanity is cured by lucidity potion on a 1s balance. Its contemporary timewarp is cured by smoking steam on a 1.5s balance. It is much easier to cure off temporary insanity compared to its counterpart given the 30% shorter cure balance, temp-ins being always cured every balance, and the convenient ability of aeon (another steam aff) to always delay (and therefore give the chance to further prevent) curing of timewarp. Insanity has stupidity, which is less reliable in cure delay. Given the recent push for more equal treatment in reports 1310 and 1542, it is appropriate to help bring more parity to similar skills. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Increase the balance time for sipping lucidity to 1.5s while afflicted with temporary insanity. It will be removed once temporary insanity is gone. 0 R: 0 Solution #2: In addition to 1, reduce the equilibrium cost of paradigmatics revelations to 1.5s (to bring it closer to the balance cost for sipping lucidity, currently 3s). 0 R: 0 Solution #3: In addition to 1, increase the amount of insanity that revelations deals from 1 to 2 (double the effect). If 2 is too reliable (because wOo cHaoS), a range from 1-3 is also acceptable. Player Comments: ---on 10/11 @ 03:23 writes: I really would prefer the report be taken as a whole. Each part is equally important. Please note that illuminati currently have no access to massive bursts of insanity (like shatterplex), so I feel that a better sustained temporary-insanity output is not only appropriate, but required. ---on 10/11 @ 03:47 writes: I thought in general Illuminati tends to have better hindering from memory in comparison, and I believe their timed affliction aff procs at a higher rate too? I admit that I may not have tracked the overhaul changes to illuminati as closely as the institute ones, but is illuminati that much weaker than institute at the moment in terms of affliction/hinder-pressure that it needs the 50% increased cure cost to tempinsanity? ---on 10/11 @ 04:44 writes: Hangedman was reduced in power given the change of all hindering to web, which also affects the Inveiglora champ ent. Ectoplasm and hekoskeri have been converted over to the overhaul system which has greatly reduced the balance loss way down from the previously double. On top of that, neither ectoplasm nor hekoskeri stack. The fact that balanceloss has been reduced also affects scrubbing, which means that scrubbing both mucus and ectoplasm off in general takes less time as well. I would say yes, the reductions warrant the request to increase the viability of temporary insanity. ---on 10/11 @ 05:01 writes: I'm generally for what you're trying to do but somewhat wary of the solutions that you're using to get there. Is there a reason we can't just increase the the insanity that revelations gives such that it maintains the level of insanity on the target? That might require tweaking the amount that lucidity slush cures but if each revelations caused 3 balances worth of lucidity slush that would allow you to maintain the level of insanity built. That way if you spend power for madfly, greywhispers, etc and are allowed to spam revelations unhindered then you can build insanity. If someone can hinder you out of using revelations then you can't. I can't remember if astrology uses equilibrium or not but solution 3 seems very specifically targeted at tarot which I'm not sure is the tertiary that needs help of the three you have. On paper even with the nerfs illuminati have seen to hindering, they should have a very strong ability to get a soulless or meteor off, hexes on the other hand relies on illuminate which is currently impossible due to how much and how quickly insanity is cured by lucidity. ---on 10/11 @ 05:33 writes: I was under the impression that hexes consumed balance. It's equilibrium, which makes solution 3 a bit too specific towards tarot. I've replaced it with Wobou's suggestion that revelations do increased insanity to help sustain insanity as an alternate solution 2 for now. At the minimum, I would prefer that if I give up actively murdering/afflicting to spam revelations, I would at least like the ability to be able to sustain the victim's current insanity levels instead of it being an ultimately futile attempt. You accomplish this by either decreasing the balance on revelations or increasing the amount of insanity. I am now presenting both options for consideration ---on 10/11 @ 06:20 writes: I agree with Wobou's comment. I also have a slight concern that spamming Revelations and only Revelations could become the optimum strategy for Illuminate, which sounds pretty dull. I'd prefer more varied ways to actively build insanity, though I'm not sure what forms that would take without rewriting or making a bunch of skills. That said, Solution 2 or 3 sounds alright, with my preference being towards 2. Solution 1 could have a lot of consequences outside of Illuminate, so might be best avoided. ---on 10/11 @ 14:08 writes: Sadly I'm wondering if even double the effect of revelations would serve to maintain insanity but we can always take a look after the changes are made to see, I suspect that right now that a revelations cast does not even perform a full focused sip of lucdiity's worth of insanity and I think you need 3 times that (possibly higher) amount to sustain. I agree with Shedrin's concern that this might make Illuminate somewhat boring but I also think this is an incremental process. A viable kill is better than an impossible kill, and a fun kill is better than a viable kill. I don't know if this makes things more fun but we could push things in a more timing based direction, abilities X Y and Z cause insanity windows for 1 second that enhance abilities X, Y and W for example such that if you ignore timing you won't be able to build but if you time abilities properly you will. I think it would be fun to repurpose figment in that way myself because I don't think it gets much use currently (but correct me if I'm wrong). ---on 10/12 @ 02:22 writes: Yeah. Tbh I feel that going for either solution 2 or 3 by itself won't really be enough to really make an effective change, but I understand the preference for gradual buffs. Though it wouldn't ruin my day if both 2 and 3 were accepted at the same time. RE: figment - it's basically only good for spamming the ecto illusion, so your mileage may vary there. That's for another report however. ---on 10/12 @ 15:13 writes: I don't really know how these numbers would add up, but I do support buffs to Revelations. Perhaps more changes can be made to further exploit the Badluck synergy with insanity. Also, a tangent, I had a vague idea pre-Minstrels instakill report to add ego synergy to Illuminati, with a secondary ego kill. That's another possible direction Illuminati can be taken. ---on 10/15 @ 13:32 writes: I feel both Revelations and Timewarp (the skills in the relevant skillsets which both solely increase tempinsanity/timewarp) are underused and undertuned - I support the above buffs to both Revelations as well as its mirrored counterpart. Preference for a slight random factor such as that mentioned in Sol 3, with a weighted distribution towards 2x base effect (akin to TK vessels in a way). ---on 10/16 @ 02:20 writes: Solutions seem reasonable to me. Support solution 2 or 3 ---on 10/16 @ 02:22 writes: Institute is balanced around Shatterplex, so timechant timewarp doesn't need a buff. I also may want to take that skill in a different direction (though not quite sure how yet with the aeon report still pending). ---on 10/18 @ 04:34 writes: I realized I never commented on your new solutions. I'm somewhat wary of the balance slowing but otherwise am for solution 3. I personally would like to leave lucidity timing alone and just buff revelations to give 3 sips worth of insanity (which translates to 3 seconds of curing it). ---on 10/19 @ 02:27 writes: A 1s cure will almost never come close to falling behind when the average offensive move is about 2.5-3s IMO